Should we be paranoid or not?

[Mben]

With all the recent events that have occured in our world of online gambling, I feel the paranoia setting in. What I have read these last few days ............1. The feds set up a fake payment processing company. (this is true)2. Will they set up a fake affiliate program to go after affiliates?3. Will they set up a fake casino or poker room to go after players?4. They have learned all they needed to know from gambling forums. (more or less) My thoughts are ............1. Casinos and their affiliate programs should be leary about who they are sending their money to, expecting it to be paid to the respective parties.2. No, they probably won't only because promoting a casino is not a crime. we are not taking wagers from players. We are only pointing potential players to the sites.3. Most likely not because it is not a crime to gamble online unless your jurisdiction states it is against their law. plus, they have bigger fish to fry. Not me or you who sit in our homes spinning a few slots and playing a little bit of cards. They want the ones who are moving the money illegally .4. Do we need to stop posting on the forum any info we find out such as who still can pay out and how? Who still is accepting players from the US? This is a tough one for me because when I read all the info that we all post here everyday, I cringe sometimes because God only knows who else is reading it? Do we create a pasword protected forum where members who request the password from staff, can get in. I don't have time to do a background check on every Tom, Dick and Harry before I hand out a password to a member that requests one. Am I paranoid? A little bit but I am just taking this all in one day at a time waiting to see how it all plays out. All this has slowed the forum down a bit, ok a lot, and that is a drag. But what do we do?I'm angry and want to scream at the top of my lungs ........ F$&K the DOJ!!! So, what are your thoughts? 

 

[PSP]

We will visit you in jail every other Sunday

 

[PSP]

Is it paranoia if they're really trying to get you?

 

[PSP]

I'll just keep posting like this and they'll think we're all nuts and leave us alone

 

[Mben]

This was me a week ago at my PC .......    This is me today ......  

 

[omeg]

Paranoia is a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality and delusion. Paranoid thinking typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a perceived threat towards oneself.  Hi Mben:I dont think you are being paranoid.Fact is we dont know what these &^%$#*&^% will do next.  These are trying times, and it seems like the DOJ has nothing better to do than bust the chops of the Online Casino Industry.  Who knows how low down the totem pole they will go. I think your fears are real, and legit.  I too worry about how it will pan out.Our wonderful forum is suffering from it, and that &^%$ me off. Members are scared to deposit, to play, to have anything to do with the Online casino Industry anymore.Anyways, you are not being paranoid in my opinion.If others think you are? Then I am right beside you , as I have fears and anxiety too from all this.                                                                                                 Pam

 

[PSP]

I am SHOCKED by the language! (not surprised, but ...) Let me slip back out of smarta$$ mode for a few minutes and see if I can answer your specific questions.1. Paranoid - No. It is ALWAYS prudent to be wary2. Fake affiliate programs? - I doubt it very seriously. In order to do that, the feds would have to establish gambling sites and actually start offering online wagering - kind of defeats the purpose of this crackdown.3. Fake casinos and poker rooms? - See #24. Are they learning the tricks of the trade from these forums? - Unfortunately yes. At some point, we might all have to exchange information in a more secure way - be it a private forum or access to somewhat secret forums. I've had a few ideas about how to work around the restrictions that the Feds have created using ideas that I've seen or read about in many different places - including this site. I discussed one of these with a certain webmaster who suggested that I keep it to myself for now. Better to be safe than sorry that you gave away the solution in public.5. Are these forum operators and moderators next on the hit list? - Very, very doubtful. In my view, this crackdown isn't about spoiling everyone's fun - it's about the money that is completely out of their control. The primary thrust of this so far has been at the financial side of the online gaming industry - the indictments have been primarily about money laundering. Have ANY players been charged with anything or have they just had their funds seized on the way to forfeiture?We are all just small fish in this vast ocean. The proverbial holes in their fishing net are so huge that they couldn't even come close to nabbing any individual - even if they wanted to. The resources that would be required to authenticate the dealings of any one player or group of players would make the catch worthless compared to the cost.In conclusion, are you being paranoid? Well, kind of... because you and this website really aren't the target of the Feds. That being said, it's prudent to be cautious (and start coming up with a way that those that YOU trust can communicate with each other without fear of having Big Brother listening in. That's not going to be easy, but nothing worthwhile ever is

 

[Guest]

Looks like a paranoid, I think. Government has more important things to do instead of hunting us lol. Anyway, it's too late to hide, they know our IP addresses ...

 

[silverVette]

Just read an article from the baltimore sun about DOJ. they set up an operation called linwood payments solutions, ran it for two years, processing $33 million from online casinos. thats what the last 10 indictments are based on. So maybe we do need to be paranoid.

 

[PSP]

silverVette wrote: Just read an article from the baltimore sun about DOJ. they set up an operation called linwood payments solutions, ran it for two years, processing $33 million from online casinos. thats what the last 10 indictments are based on. So maybe we do need to be paranoid.

 That's actually why I don't think that we have anything to worry about. The Feds can set up a processing firm because it's a legal enterprise. they are after the money and the big fish, not the players or website operators

 

[Seriously]

the answer is .... NOT. according to this article posted today at gambling911.comUS Attorney Rod Rosenstein: Indictments will not Target GamblersIn an interview with the Baltimores 1090 AM, Baltimore US Attorney Rod Rosenstein made it clear that gamblers would not be subject to criminal prosecution from gambling online, including those looking to play Internet poker. People need to be familiar with the law in their particular state, Rosenstein said. There are some states that allow gambling but companies that are in the business of providing online gambling services are generally prohibited under US law and prohibited from moving money back and forth through banks, which is how they operate. And so these indictments target, not the users but the businesses that are in violation of US law by providing these services.Rosensteins office set up a fake payment processing company that acted as intermediaries between a handful of online gambling companies. On Monday two of those companies were indicted, BMX, which is a holding company for Bookmaker, DoylesRoom and Fun Time Bingo, among others, and BetED.com. The BMX brands were up and running within minutes of the indictments being announced while BetED.com was forced to shut down on Wednesday. BMX had only transferred less than $100,000 into the fake processing company. Nine of the ten domains seized belong to that firm. One individual from that company, an accounts receivable employee by the name of Ann Marie Puig, was charged simply because she signed off on the application to do business with Linwood Payment Solutions, the fake processing company. Ms. Puig, an outstanding law abiding citizen whose only crime appears to be working in an industry that has helped fortify Costa Ricas economy over the past 15 years, is no longer permitted to travel to the US for regular visits with her elderly parents as a result of this indictment. As for the domain seizures, Rosenstein noted that, in the past law enforcement agencies would simply shut down indicted business, now they are shutting down the Internet storefronts, the website domains.

 

[omeg]

Thank you for posting this Seriously, it was a interesting read.                                                                                      Pam

 

[PokerProChase]

wow....im thinking of moving outside the US, casinos should not use american cash systems, im not sure what to think, arent there pedofiles and terrorists out there doing much worse and shouldnt the fbi be more worried about cracking down on drugs, or finding missing people, then cracking down on little ole casino sites that offer stress relief to those of us who need it?

 

[PSP]

PokerProChase wrote: wow....im thinking of moving outside the US, casinos should not use american cash systems, im not sure what to think, arent there pedofiles and terrorists out there doing much worse and shouldnt the fbi be more worried about cracking down on drugs, or finding missing people, then cracking down on little ole casino sites that offer stress relief to those of us who need it?

 I'm curious what it would take to set up a bank account in Mexico - just curious ...  

 

[PSP]

or, for those of you in the Northern regions, Canada ... eh?

 

[Guest]

PSP wrote:

PokerProChase wrote: wow....im thinking of moving outside the US, casinos should not use american cash systems, im not sure what to think, arent there pedofiles and terrorists out there doing much worse and shouldnt the fbi be more worried about cracking down on drugs, or finding missing people, then cracking down on little ole casino sites that offer stress relief to those of us who need it?

 I'm curious what it would take to set up a bank account in Mexico - just curious ...  

 Then you will become a victim of their authorities fighting agains drug criminals ))

 

[omeg]

As the days go by, and the DOJ seems to show no signs of slowing down in their effort to rid the US of this terrible disease they call Online Gambling, all I know is they have taken the fun out of it. I dont worry so much about getting in trouble personally as much as do I or dont I make a deposit.  Will I or wont I get paid.  Who will the DOJ shut down today.Gawd, dont they have better things to do than this?I am a moderator for a top notch forum.  My job is to promote casinos.  If they keep dropping like they are, I will have nothing to promote, and likely be out of a job.  I guess the DOJ doesnt care about little ol'e me and the fact they could put me out of work.Online gaming has taken hits before, and it has always bounced back with a new way to play.  Each day I am hoping for that to happen again soon.Okay, Im done venting.Thanks for this thread Mben.                                                                             Pam

 

[sporty883]

I am so sick and tired of looking over my sholder. They may say they are not going after us, but wait. There will be some reason to start cracking down on us. Not to mention the casinos are getting harder and harder to deposit with or win at. I recieved notice recently that my payment option I use on line will be charging me extra for using their card at the casinos and charging a monthly fee if not used. It has gotten to the point that i am better off just saving my money and going to a land based casino....(wonder if that may be the ultimate plan from lobbiest?) I have played a long time online and have watched the decline. I would be willing to bet they have info on all of us, if we have ever made deposits from the US. How do we stop the insanity ? This started off with the previous president because it was stated our money was going to fund illegal activities. Hum, I think not, I think it is the Man wanting to get in our back pocket and take more control over our lives.. I say let them set up a payment method in the US for us to use and then they will get their portion of the proceeds as well as where our money is going. What are we to do?

 

[omeg]

You raise some very good points sporty883.Thanks for your input. I too feel like just saving my money and going to the land casino lately, and then I go: THIS IS BS and I make that deposit at a reputable casino and continue to try my luck and enjoy online gambling a little longer.  Getting paid if I win is my biggest concern, but as you stated, it is so hard to win, I havent had to worry about that. It's all just a shame.                                                                                                  Pam

 

[Calig116]

Hi,I think they are more afraid of us than we are of them. If they started coming after online gamblers individually, not only would it cost the taxpayers billions of dollars in trying to prosecute them, but people like us who've had enough are likely to band together and are likely to defeat them as a cohesive unit. The last thing that they want is a revolt from a bunch of pissed off gamers who now have nothing better to do with their spare they are stealing from us. Now that energy can be directed to reestablishing our right to the pursuit of   life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Whether the government profits off of the taxes from that pursuit or not.It would be a very bad move on the part of the feds wake the masses through their greedy Inquisitions, by exending this to include private individuals minding their own business in the privacy of their own homes. This isn't like the drug war. They are dealing with a whole new group of intelligent, articulate people. And a a good percentage of this group has money.The feds are not that greedy or stupid.     

 

[omeg]

Calig116 wrote: Hi,I think they are more afraid of us than we are of them. If they started coming after online gamblers individually, not only would it cost the taxpayers billions of dollars in trying to prosecute them, but people like us who've had enough are likely to band together and are likely to defeat them as a cohesive unit. The last thing that they want is a revolt from a bunch of pissed off gamers who now have nothing better to do with their spare they are stealing from us. Now that energy can be directed to reestablishing our right to the pursuit of   life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Whether the government profits off of the taxes from that pursuit or not.It would be a very bad move on the part of the feds wake the masses through their greedy Inquisitions, by exending this to include private individuals minding their own business in the privacy of their own homes. This isn't like the drug war. They are dealing with a whole new group of intelligent, articulate people. And a a good percentage of this group has money.The feds are not that greedy or stupid.     

 That was a fantastic read Calig116, thank you for posting your views.If they ever did start prosecuting online gamers, who would be their first target?  Would it be the ones who deposited the most? Who won the most?   I'm just curious how it would start. Anyone have any ideas? So many of you are so intelligent when it comes to this topic, I enjoy reading your thoughts so much.Again, as the days pass, I dont think they will come after us,  but who knows what they have up their sleeve.  Right now I think they are shutting down as many as they can in hopes we will get scared and run away I guess.  We all know that will not happen, but it does seem this is their NEW past time. Shutting down online sites.  Making US players miserable.                                                                                             PamOnce again, to me, it all boils down to I should be able to do with my money what I want.   The US governmment says I cant.

 

[Mben]

Thank you all for your comments, opinions and viewpoints. It helps to know how other people are feeling about situations so I, as an individual, don't get caught up in just what I am feeling about it all. Now that a few days have passed and the ugliness of last week is in the past, I am business as usual today with my only worry being ....... How do I bring the money home? And not just as a player. I am still depositing online without the fear of the gov't coming after me. We are all still posting away out in the open because we have nothing to hide. Nothing's changed really except as I said, how do I bring the money home?The casino owners and operators are very smart people. They will find ways to get around the payout processor issues. I wish some found a way rather than shutting down all together. (I'm referring to a couple of affiliate programs and not their casinos) And with that said, ( They will find ways to get around the payout processor issues ) I think I just talked myself into being just fine. It will all work out in the end. We will be able to gamble online legally eventually. After the DOJ does what it feels necessary to have a clean slate so they can set it up how they want.