Sookie
WELL KNOWN MEMBER
@pokerhighway666 - I did speak to Dean a moment ago, I guess he called you and explained everything?
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RAGING BULL CASINO
- Thread starter krystalkitty
- Start date
got my last wire 2-3 days after I cashed. that was fast
Raging Bull is fast and their CS is great too
luckychick
Banned
This happened to me too....Raging Bull took $20 off the top of my payout and tried to blame my bank too. My bank takes a $15 after an international wire is received. It is a separate charge that comes about 2-3 days after I get the wire in my account. So the $20 RBC took was not an accident..it was done on purpose hoping players would not notice.
I really believed RBC when Dean finally promised it was an isolated incident...and it was the first time it has ever happened. They would wave the $45 on my next payout to make up for it.
Something is not right about what happened here and I have had a few other issues recently with RBC and they said to only PM them so they would help me quicker and not to make things public.
Please tell me if any of you have had not huge, but minor issues that might seem small until you realize that other players are having them too. Like the $20 being skimmed off the top of payouts.
luckychick
Banned
Hello Everyone!
Wow, I am back here after a long time
As everyone knows Raging Bull and Grand Fortune charge a $45 wire fee, this is what our bank charges us in order to send an international wire transfer. Once a wire transfer hits a players account their bank then charges them a fee to receive an international wire this is usually in the range of $10 - $16 (This is from my experiences)
I have chatted to a few of my guys at the bank and we noticed that the intermediary Bank that our bank uses charges an additional $20 to us which in turn hurts you as the customer. Moving forward when we send payments we will add the extra $20 to your payment so when the intermediary bank send off the payment you guys do not take the knock.
Here is a simple example how it will work:-
Original withdrawal: $900
Wire Fee: $45
Amount to be wired : $855
Grand Fortune/Raging Bull process to player: $875
After GF/RB intermediary fees player will receive: $855
Once the player gets their correctly calculated amount whatever other fees their banks charge them is out of our control.
I hope this helps resolve everyone's questions and pondering. hehe.
I know we only have Wire Transfer as the only available withdrawal option but I can assure you that we are getting a Pay to Card option very soon
Have a Wonderful Weekend!
Best regards,
Dean
Dean -
As I have told you before...those fees are INSANE. I asked a rep at two international banks about fees and he said that if a business is sending international wires regularly, the fee would for certain be reduced if not totally abolished to keep them as a regular customer of the bank. Both reps also said that a $45 fee for international wire is standard but the additional "$20 added" would never happen because that bank, which is Barclay's, would lose a ton of business because it is not a competitive rate.
You don't need to be Einstein to figure this one out....and there was no need to lie to me that I was the only player effected after unsuccessfully trying to blame my bank for the $20.
luckychick
Banned
luckychick
Banned
When RB charges $45 to send players money they do not get any of it. That is how much it costs them to do it. I hope this helps some of you who think RB is getting the money. I promise it is true
I understand the $45 fee Linda....I think it is way to high and wish it got comped like at other casinos sometimes but that is not my point.
I am referring to the additional $20 missing from player's (me included) total payout. The $20 was not removed with the $45 fee RBC bank charges, nor did RBC inform players about the additional $20.
RBC first blamed my bank insistently, which when finally proved this false they claimed it was a one-time error and the next payout they would wave the $45 for me to make up for this isolated mistake.
So please understand my shock when I read Dean's explanation on this forum's thread:
"I have chatted to a few of my guys at the bank and we noticed that the intermediary Bank that our bank uses charges an additional $20 to us which in turn hurts you as the customer. Moving forward when we send payments we will add the extra $20 to your payment so when the intermediary bank send off the payment you guys do not take the knock."
Why would RBC Casino employ another bank for more $20....in this day and age why would any company not use one of the thousands of international banks and pay one flat fee?!?!?
Dean is acting like us players should be grateful or something that RBC is incompetent... "Moving forward when we send payments we will add the extra $20 to your payment so when the intermediary bank send off the payment you guys do not take the knock."
What about RBC using an international bank and getting a business rate below $45 due to the frequency they send international wires?
In response to what Sookie wrote above....I NEVER said anything about the $45 fee except that it is high. I am well aware of it and if is included as part of the amount of the payout of request.
The $20 missing from the wire I received.....that is wrong. My mistake, as I let it slide as an isolated one time thing that happened to my account. I was even told it might be because I play on a macbook, not on Internet Explorer.
So please try to understand my shock when I was browsing your forum yesterday and found this thread.
It makes RBC look very sneaky......and shady something I am disappointed about because I thought maybe this casino is honestly different.
Sookie
WELL KNOWN MEMBER
I believe Raging Bull truly IS different and is my first pick hands down but I see what you are upset about so I have asked @Dean FTA to look at this and answer for Raging Bull himself. It usually doesn't take them long to get back to me but with the holidays fast approaching there may be a delay. I know that Jason is already gone on holiday until after the first.
luckychick
Banned
Did you hear back from Dean?
I like Dean and Jason a lot...and like playing at RBC too but there have been a few incidents recently, like the missing $20 on player's payouts that have to make a player be a tad skeptical.
Please understand that due to the online gaming industries terrible reputation with USA players, it is tough to trust any casino. I am sure the majority of people her have had one, two or 10 really terrible experiences with a casino sometime, I certainly have and it was awful feeling because I trusted blindly.
It is obvious that RGC has been growing big time and that is due to the reputation they are getting praise about but I have noticed things starting to change. And not in a good way....like the last 6 weeks not one bonus code has worked for me., the reps have given me a free $20 and $10 bonus but couldn't cash out at all once I hit the play-through amount....but that issue is for another thread. As well as the 4 "pending" deposits that are sitting in my cashier. Never saw a dollar of these deposits in my balance, but my VISA Card got charged for them. These kind of issues NEVER-EVER happened during the first 8-months I was playing at RBC.
And the slots are playing significantly tighter....like almost to a fault. And I do not expect to win a payout all the time but RBC used to keep a player playing in the games for a lot longer....I think in my last $1000+ of deposits, the most I won was $63 in total. I request my game history for this month and calculated a losing percentage of $79.4%, 8.6% were pushed and 20.6% were wins. That is really bad....and it is making me wonder if it is worth playing much longer at RBC or I could just take $100 and burn them.
Ok I will shut-up now...but please let me know how Dean responded to the -$20 payout issue. And thank you in advance, as I am looking forward to hearing the real reason for it.
I like Dean and Jason a lot...and like playing at RBC too but there have been a few incidents recently, like the missing $20 on player's payouts that have to make a player be a tad skeptical.
Please understand that due to the online gaming industries terrible reputation with USA players, it is tough to trust any casino. I am sure the majority of people her have had one, two or 10 really terrible experiences with a casino sometime, I certainly have and it was awful feeling because I trusted blindly.
It is obvious that RGC has been growing big time and that is due to the reputation they are getting praise about but I have noticed things starting to change. And not in a good way....like the last 6 weeks not one bonus code has worked for me., the reps have given me a free $20 and $10 bonus but couldn't cash out at all once I hit the play-through amount....but that issue is for another thread. As well as the 4 "pending" deposits that are sitting in my cashier. Never saw a dollar of these deposits in my balance, but my VISA Card got charged for them. These kind of issues NEVER-EVER happened during the first 8-months I was playing at RBC.
And the slots are playing significantly tighter....like almost to a fault. And I do not expect to win a payout all the time but RBC used to keep a player playing in the games for a lot longer....I think in my last $1000+ of deposits, the most I won was $63 in total. I request my game history for this month and calculated a losing percentage of $79.4%, 8.6% were pushed and 20.6% were wins. That is really bad....and it is making me wonder if it is worth playing much longer at RBC or I could just take $100 and burn them.
Ok I will shut-up now...but please let me know how Dean responded to the -$20 payout issue. And thank you in advance, as I am looking forward to hearing the real reason for it.
Sookie
WELL KNOWN MEMBER
luckychick
Banned
Are you getting the other players USERNAMES who have the same issue...and started this thread about it??? I hope so...but my USERNAME is luck1717.
luckychick
Banned
I have not heard back from Dean, it was after hours (for them) when made my post this morning and it is the middle of the night there now.
Did you ever get a reply about this @snookie?
You never got back to explain the issue to the players this happened too....and why RBC tried to blame the players banks and then told me it was an isolated incident when clearly it was not.
luckychick
Banned
Sookie
WELL KNOWN MEMBER
I spoke to Dean on Friday and he was to get back to me but did not before the weekend. Unlike Mben and myself the casino reps do not work weekends. I intend to get a hold of him late tonight which will be the beginning of his day.
Last edited:
The whole thought behind my post is as follows: when we sent payments in the past it worked this way...a player cashes out $145 we then take out our $45 wire fee and the player will receive $100...but then some regulations with the banks cam into play and they started taking off $20 so when we sent the payment the player will be $20 short...we have sorted this issue by adding the $20 to the wire trasnfer so when our banks deduct the $20 our players do not take the knock...we as the casino take the knock instead...this is the compromise we make for our wonderful players at Raging Bull.
luckychick
Banned
Dean - This means that RBC's bank wire costs the casino $65 per payout..that is absurdly high and almost idiotic that RBC would still be doing business with this bank any longer.
My payout wires from RBC come via Braclay's Bank, so I called Barclay's to inquire about the additional international wire regulation fee tacked in addition to the $45. The Barclay's rep said no bank would ever do this because who would use their international wire service, as they would not longer be competitive.
Dean - acting like RBC is doing players a favor by not charging another $20 to the $45 payout fee is comical. RBC should find a bank another bank, as it is not the players fault who RBC decided to employee for their bank.
And I had to contact RBC about the missing $20.... and RBC tried to blame the fee on my bank. I was also told by RBC this was an isolated incident, and clearly it was not.
I was offered "no fee" on my next payout to compensate for this error. So please understand that RBC should have been upfront and informed players of this $20 removal because now it seems very suspect.
Also...why did RBC not inform players of the $20 removal?
luckychick
Banned
@krystalkitty I would like an answer as well and not some run-around BS about the bank regulation fees.
Where is the new thread you started about this??
Hello Everyone!
My apologies in getting here so late, things have been hectic at our office as most of our staff is on leave! I will attend to everyones queries today.
@luckychick We have been emailing each other back and forth and I had answered all your questions, I still have to reply to one of your emails and then we can consider all your questions answered!
I have mentioned many times before the banks we use to process our payments have very high fees and I am working around the clock to source new banks but most of them do not take on new businesses for different reasons. Everyone needs to understand our (The Casinos) risk that is also involved. I have worked in this industry for 4 years now and I have seen deals go south with banks and third parties who steal our money, we found a bank and third party that we can trust but their fees are high but the main thing is we can TRUST them. There were cases in the past with fraudulent third parties where our players payments go "missing" and cannot be found. With our current bank and third party provider we know that our payments reach our players in a fast and timely manner. We are in talks with a few third party providers and banks to negotiate fees etc.
@krystalkitty I will send you an email regarding those fees, my processor sent me an email explaining everything.
Best regards,
Dean
My apologies in getting here so late, things have been hectic at our office as most of our staff is on leave! I will attend to everyones queries today.
@luckychick We have been emailing each other back and forth and I had answered all your questions, I still have to reply to one of your emails and then we can consider all your questions answered!
I have mentioned many times before the banks we use to process our payments have very high fees and I am working around the clock to source new banks but most of them do not take on new businesses for different reasons. Everyone needs to understand our (The Casinos) risk that is also involved. I have worked in this industry for 4 years now and I have seen deals go south with banks and third parties who steal our money, we found a bank and third party that we can trust but their fees are high but the main thing is we can TRUST them. There were cases in the past with fraudulent third parties where our players payments go "missing" and cannot be found. With our current bank and third party provider we know that our payments reach our players in a fast and timely manner. We are in talks with a few third party providers and banks to negotiate fees etc.
@krystalkitty I will send you an email regarding those fees, my processor sent me an email explaining everything.
Best regards,
Dean
Well, my concern is they can just add random fee's? Like I stated, my receipts I get say one thing, and then I check my bank and what is taken out, isn't what the receipt says. That said, 
for all that you try to do for us 
for all that you try to do for us 
I was going to throw my 2 cents in the other day but decided against it only because Sookie was handling it. This is part of what I was going to say though. It is what I knew casinos had to deal with when teaming up with processors or banks. It is not that easy for them.
Ok, so players were caught off guard with the extra $20 being taken out of the amount they expected to see land in their bank account after the wire hit. That is something that RB can't control if the bank they use chooses to charge customers that fee. (< --- lead in for the following)
What they can control is what intermediary bank they choose to use (hopefully one who will not charge the customer a fee at all or will charge RB if a fee must be charged) BUT we have to remember, (I am assuming you're in the States, luckychick), online gambling and gambling transactions are frowned upon here in the States. I assume that it could be a little bit tricky for online casinos to find honest processors or intermediary banks willing to handle the casinos' business.
Ok, so players were caught off guard with the extra $20 being taken out of the amount they expected to see land in their bank account after the wire hit. That is something that RB can't control if the bank they use chooses to charge customers that fee. (< --- lead in for the following)
What they can control is what intermediary bank they choose to use (hopefully one who will not charge the customer a fee at all or will charge RB if a fee must be charged) BUT we have to remember, (I am assuming you're in the States, luckychick), online gambling and gambling transactions are frowned upon here in the States. I assume that it could be a little bit tricky for online casinos to find honest processors or intermediary banks willing to handle the casinos' business.
luckychick
Banned
Well, my concern is they can just add random fee's? Like I stated, my receipts I get say one thing, and then I check my bank and what is taken out, isn't what the receipt says. That said,
I completely agree....the added fees and also the change added to the charge on my VISA card with each transaction should be straightforward.
What concerns me is that Raging Bull Casino did not inform players of this $20 additional fee taken from our payouts. I had to contact RBC and they played dumb, then told me it was isolated mistake and also tried to blame it one my bank.
Why were players not informed by RBC about this new additional $20 payout fee?
And why did RBC not tell the truth when I asked about the missing $20 when my wire hit my bank account?
luckychick
Banned
I hear you @Mben but RBC was not upfront about this to players, even when brought to their attention, they said it was my bank who charged the fee.
I happen to find this forum almost 2 months after this $20 additional fee was taken from my payout....only to learn that this was not an isolated with my account as I was told. It was very disappointing,
I can't answer as to why they didn't tell players about the extra $20. Maybe saying it was the player's bank was a knee jerk answer until they did some investigating?
2 months later was sufficient time to look into the matter and correct it. I do agree with that.
So at this point, RB knows about the $20 fee, they have given a "workaround" so the player is not charged the $20 and now it's time for someone to withdrawal again and see if their "workaround" works.
After all has been said and done, if another member tells us that their recent withdrawal got hit with the $20, then there is still a problem, but let's hope that this issue has been resolved.
luckychick
Banned
@Mben I hear what you are saying but it is unprofessional to give a knee jerk response to a customer/player...RBC should be aware of what is happening with there processors because it is their job, not mine to point out. Especially since they received so many complaints about his from players too.
Hi luckychick,
Compliments of the season!!
Wow, I thought this issue has been taken care of ages ago. Firstly, I am sure I have suggested on numerous occasions that if you have a withdrawal, that you please email Dean asap and he will arrange to pay the withdrawal via the pay to card solution. However, Dean just advised me that you continue to request the withdrawal to be paid via wire. As you know there are fees that are out of our control. Secondly, I also think you misunderstood what Dean tried to explain to you regarding the $20 Fee. Basically, we did not know that when our players received their money, that there was a $20 fee being deducted from the initial cashin amount. But once it was brought to our attention, we rectified the issue at hand.
Here is an example of what WAS happening in the past and how we HAVE resolved the issue:-
PAST - A player would cashout $200 and we would send the player a wire for $155 ($200 cashin - $45 fee). However, the player would only receive $135 ($155 – an additional $20 fee). This is due to our banks intermediary bank taking their fee. Of which we were not aware of and which is out of our control.
PRESENT - A player cashes out $200 and we then send a wire for $175 ($200 - $45 + $20), the player will then get the FULL $155 in their account instead of $135 due to us covering the intermediary fee of $20 as mentioned above.
Long story short, we are now picking up the additional fee of $20.
I hope that the above makes sense and that we can move forward on a positive note!
Best Regards
Jason
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